May 14, 2011
subbie boys
i have nothing against submissive men/ subbie boys and infact i have come to admire several of them who i have gotten to know better through the P&H chatrooms or through other blogs. But it seems to me in general that there are few less 'decent' submissive boys out there than there are submissive girls and that the two groups generally tend to have different reasons for getting involved in the lifestyle. i know i am stereotyping and over-generalising here and i don't mean to offend or upset anyone, but i'll try to explain what i mean.
Firstly let me state that i have no problem with the idea of a man being submissive, unlike some others in the lifestyle (notably some Goreans) who seem to think that the 'natural' way of things is for Men to be Dominant and women to be submissive so there is something inherently wrong in it being the other way round. i am not one of them. But i have noticed that there appear to be many more subbie boys than Dommes, at least online, whereas the numbers of submissive females and male Doms seems much more equal. Maybe i just hang out in the wrong rooms, but that's the trend i've seen. Also most of the subbie boys i've seen online seem to be much more into the 'bottoming' role rather than true submission or slavery - it's much more about kinky play or sex, what they can get out of it, rather than an internal need to submit to the control of another. Or that's the way it comes across. Sit in the chatroom and observe the subbie boys who come in and you'll find that most of them are unable or unwilling to follow the room rules without being constantly prompted and reminded, that they crave immediate and constant attention from any Domme who happens to be in the room at the time, that they're always thinking with their little head (or their cock as it's more commonly known) asking about whether they can indulge in whatever their fetish happens to be, and that they're very much in it for the sex side and make frequent references to this. It all comes across as rather shallow and pointless, so it's no wonder that most Dommes steer well clear of the majority of the subbie boys who hang about online. Another thing i've noticed is that these boys tend not to be picky about who carries out their fetish or meets their kinky desires, so they're quite happy for a subbie girl to play with their cock or let them lick their toes or whatever else they happen to fantasise about, whereas most subbie girls are looking for the control of being used by a Dominant, not just getting their kinky rocks off with anyone with a pulse.
Perhaps you think i've painted an unfair picture here and to some extent i know i have, but it still remainst true to what i've seen happen time and time again online. i do know of examples of online and real-life D/s couples where the subbie boy is into it for the pleasure of serving and obeying his Domme, but it seems that these boys are very few and far between, especially when compared to the many genuine female subs and slaves out there. Not that there's anything wrong with being into it purely for the kink and the sexual gratification, just pointing out an observation. And comments, as always, are welcome :)
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9 comments:
No, I totally agree. I've noticed the same thing. There are female subs who are in it for the sex too... pretending to be submissive when really they're more "kinky bottoms", but they're as few and far between as true submissive men. And like you said... there's nothing wrong with being a kinky bottom... but at least own up to the fact that's what you are and stop trying to pretend to be something you're not.
12:17 AM*hugs*
turiya
Hi Libby
10:42 AMThanks for the post - interesting subject. I'm a switch, so I'll give you my view from that perspective. Yes: I think you're right about the uneven split in the online world (some sites being worse than others) for there being a massive number of sub males per Domme, and most of them very unsuitable (i.e. completely self absorbed). But I think that's partly to do with the social pressures on sub males - I think it's a much harder thing to come to terms with than being Dom as a male, because it goes against all of the norms we were brought up with. I think that the result is you get a lot of fantasists, who are only secret-life subs out of the male group. They try to snatch little snippets of 'sub' experience without embracing it, which actually makes them come across selfish.
In real life though, I'd say the split is much more equal. A lot of men I know started out as Dom and then discovered their sub side once they found they could come to terms with it. These types of male sub, the ones that have accepted it as part of themselves, are an absolute joy to be around, and to Domme. Frankly, I'm often left thinking how much better they are than me at subbing!
Phew - sorry, that was a bit of a long comment! In essence, what I mean is there are a lot of male subs online who are only after pleasuring themselves because it's their dirty little secret. But perhaps they all have the potential to be different.
Jx
thanks for the interesting comments, i never really thought about it in terms of men having more difficulty than women reconciling their submissive side. But it does make sense that this may be a problem for them, so they are secret online subs only, and concentrating on getting their sexual fantasies met. i have met a couple of real-life subbie boys and they seem more into the service and true submission, so perhaps it is just an online problem. Also i was wondering if it has something to do with evolutionary make-up and differences between the sexes - if men are programmed to be all about sex and getting their way with as many women as possible to sow their oats but women are more about finding the right partner to care for their babies, then perhaps that has something to do with the different approaches to TTWD? Just an idea....
11:14 AMI think you hit the nail on the head when you mention social conditioning. Men tend to be trained to exert themselves, to be physical, to focus on external goals, while women are taught to be internal, accepting and understanding, and to focus on connection and sharing for support. That right there could explain it, if you strip away the rest of personalities.
9:11 PMI will say, I have never seen that to be the case in the kink communities I've been a part of. Maybe it's a chatroom thing. I certainly disagree with the statements made, based on my experiences.
Hi Libby,
9:04 PMGreat blog - long time reader, first time writer etc...
As a male sub (and hopefully one that fits into your 'decent' category), I've always been disappointed by the stuff that goes on in chatrooms, but not only because of pseudo submissive men and the streams of topping-from-the-bottom pretend fawning garbage they can come out with. It's all too easy to type that stuff.
I've always wanted to get to know a Domme in a chatroom on - and this may sound shocking - something akin to equal terms. Clearly, it's not the high protocol crowd I'm going for. I'd like an intelligent conversation with someone who has some insight into my experience, and me into theirs. Undercurrent of D/s from the outset? Sure.
What I end up getting, in contrast, is the opportunity to be called a worthless slut by a complete stranger.
I'm fully prepared to accept that it's just me, but I can't understand why the sentence 'Hi, I'm a submissive' should be construed as 'Hi, I'm YOUR submissive'. That's as much a gift as a Domme's dominance, and it's unclear to me why they should not be equally respected, external to a relationship.
More power to genuine subs!
this article seemed very relevant, thought you might find something interesting...
10:48 PMit talks about "Domism" and how role essentialism.
http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/domism-role-essentialism-and-sexism-intersectionality-in-the-bdsm-scene/
More great comments :)
7:59 AMI think it does tend to be more of an online thing - both that there are more male subs than female Dommes online (whereas i think it's probably more equal numbers in real-life) and also that most of the subbie boys online tend to act in the ways i described. A friend of mine on the chatrooms reckons it's because they don't want to fully commit to the lifestyle or even try it out in reality, so it becomes their dirty little secret, a thrill that they want to play around with in their spare time on the internet. Hence their preoccupation with getting their fetishes seen to and having fun, rather than on building up genuine relationships or serving in a submissive sense.
*shrugs* each to their own :)
.... and interesting article, eliza beth, though some of it went over my head. i think sometimes i am guilty of stereotyping people in the BDSM community, so maybe i need to be more aware of that myself.
8:09 AMnice find eliza beth. I felt mildly chided in places, although as a sub, I'm conflicted over whether I should enjoy the sensation or not ;/
2:45 PMIt's a minefield of paradox, but I think backing off from value judgment, even when faced with the seemingly disingenuous, is probably the right way to go (or the line of least resistance, I'm not sure which).
Libby: you may be right about dirty little secrets, but I wonder why this feels like the only option for a lot of submissive/bottom guys. I recently heard a discussion on early evening Radio4 about super injunctions, which included a famous newspaper editor describing Max Mosley as a 'little pervert'. No one vocally objected. I was disappointed, but not surprised :(
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